A "podcast" behind a paywall is not a podcast.

A "podcast" that only one app can receive is not a podcast.

A "podcast" without a public feed that can be freely pulled into any podcast client or RSS reader is not a damn podcast, don't let people get away with calling it that.

@Rob_T_Firefly If you can't download the file and save it for later listening without an internet connection then it's just sparkling streaming media.

That's just digital media. It's not a podcast.

That's like calling a Pearl jam album a podcast, right?

@Rob_T_Firefly I dunno i feel like ppl should be allowed to charge for podcasts tho? you could also easily do a subscription RSS feed with a token in a query param

iPodder was the first app allowing subscriptions to feeds, afaicr. It used RSS and pushed mp3s onto iTunes to d/l onto an iPod and predated Apple's own iTunes efforts.

If it ain't RSS audio enclosures it ain't podcasts.

@io @Rob_T_Firefly Problem is that an URL with a query param can be easily spread by accident or by malicious intent, therefore it would be wise to implement mechanisms to detect that to protect monetization, which is both non-trivial and can be likely hostile towards legitimate users

@lastfuture @Rob_T_Firefly okay but not paying is a social not a technical problem. sure you can go farther but the goal is to make money not to prevent all instances of not paying.

@io @Rob_T_Firefly Yes absolutely. AntennaPod even has an option for HTTP(S) basic auth, with seems reasonable to me as well

@Rob_T_Firefly I'm mostly out of the loop on podcast culture as I can't do audio only content so don't pay much attention but isn't the only requirement that it is audio of people talking? I'm not sure why they can't charge for it or distribute it any way they want?

@wolfie @Rob_T_Firefly I can imagine podcasts with people just playing music as well - for me it's a podcast as long as my podcatchers can grab it, which is when they provide a RSS feed

@phel @wolfie This is correct. Podcasting isn't about what's in the content of the audio, it's about the way in which it's distributed. It's about the particular combination of downloadable audio files and openly-syndicated RSS feeds.

It's like how there are a zillion ways to send text-based content around the Internet, but only one method using a certain category of software configured to automatically interoperate among users' devices in a particular manner can properly be called "email."

@thor @wolfie @Rob_T_Firefly @phel that is true in much the same way as steve jobs inventing the computer is true


I disagree, a podcast may require payment and I'd wish there would be a standard interface for that so podcatchers could handle it.

Currently we still need services like patreon for such constructs or massive manual work.

But donations seem also to work somehow. I'm just not sure if that's good enough for everyone.

@deusfigendi @Rob_T_Firefly I think there are some podcast hosts/clients that implement, which at least, is a decentralized standard, for example:

@deusfigendi @Rob_T_Firefly Another option could be for something like @Castopod (which also federates), WriteFreely (that also now supports WebMonetization), and @peertube to also implement in addition, in order to give people more options of how to give to creators...

@Rob_T_Firefly isn't podcast literally an apple term for ipod content lol

@icedquinn @Rob_T_Firefly It predates Apple; they didn't come up with it first. The very first podcast in history is likely The No Agenda show, which is why Adam Curry is known as "The Podfather" ... while not a programmer himself, it was people Adam knew way back in the day that added an audio attachment to RSS feeds, which Apple eventually created an XML schema for, leading to the modern podcast (via RSS) as we know it.

@djsumdog @Rob_T_Firefly is there a pre-apple source who actually called it a podcast

@icedquinn @Rob_T_Firefly Not sure. Most of that I heard from when Adam was on Joe Rogan over a year ago .. might have been the first time he was on Rogan.

Rogan is kinda interesting because by the OP, it's no longer a podcast .. not really, since you can't pull it via RSS unless you use someone who's maintained a 3rd party feed .. and even then you have to have a DRM enabled browser to play any of them.

@Rob_T_Firefly And especially: A YOUTUBE VIDEO IS NOT A PODCAST!

@Rob_T_Firefly A youtube channel with "Podcast" in the title is also not a podcast sneaky sneaky.

@Capheind @Rob_T_Firefly There's some subtlety here, in that YouTube does provide webfeeds! But:

1) Most podcatchers can't understand the attached video formats.
2) It requires special knowledge to find these feeds or even know they're there.

@Rob_T_Firefly I might agree with your second and third point, but a podcast behind a paywall is definitely a podcast, how else can we finally get rid of all the trackers and all the advertisement, etc. if we can't pay for quality content?

Don't fall into the trap to think that surveillance capitalism is the only option!

@rochelimit @randynose @Rob_T_Firefly What about Atom enclosures? ๐Ÿ˜›

@jeena Speaking as a media-literacy educator and anti-advertising-industry activist and privacy advocate who makes non-commercial listener-supported radio as well as ad-free Creative-Commons-licensed podcasts and other artwork, I definitely agree that surveillance capitalism isn't the only option. ๐Ÿ˜Ž๐Ÿ‘

@icedquinn @djsumdog @Rob_T_Firefly NPR put a bunch of their shows up in real audio format for years before podcasts, I used to rip them and load them up on a windows mobile pocketPC. That was more like web syndication tho, I think of podcasts as a web-only media.

@anonymoose @icedquinn @Rob_T_Firefly oh man, Real Media. That's a throwback. When I was in Seattle, I worked with a girl who worked on their A/V codecs in C++ back in the 90s. They're still around apparently.

@se7en @djsumdog @Rob_T_Firefly @anonymoose uh, what free and open codec was available in the 90s? DivX?

@icedquinn @se7en @Rob_T_Firefly @anonymoose @djsumdog man don't remind me. fucking divx! i dreaded spending tons of time downloading a movie... mozilla downloader because resuming downloads was absolutely required back then... only to realize i don't have a codec that supports it. download the right codec, install it for your player and... nothing. because apparently these open formats didn't have any standards that anyone followed.

@se7en @djsumdog @Rob_T_Firefly @anonymoose @icedquinn

> despite there being free and open codecs that were superior.

back in the mid-90s? Were there??

@se7en @Rob_T_Firefly @anonymoose @djsumdog @jeffcliff bruh those are uncompressed a wav of a song was a tenth of your hard drive in 91

@icedquinn @djsumdog @se7en @Rob_T_Firefly @jeffcliff

Thank goodness for zip drives ๐Ÿ˜…

@Rob_T_Firefly so a creator shouldnโ€™t be paid for their time? Is a movie that isnโ€™t free no longer a movie? Or an album that isnโ€™t free no longer an album? All creators deserve to be compensated however they see fit for their creations.

@kev @Rob_T_Firefly The gripe at top-of-thread is that "podcast" has a specific, technical definition. It's not right for e.g. Spotify to steal the name in order to monopolize the space. Just like broadcast TV had a technical definition. Or DVDs.

If we can't enjoy the podcast in the podcatcher of our choice it's not a podcast.

I'd probably loosen the paywall qualification a little... I do want creators to get paid!

@Rob_T_Firefly The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.

@alcinnz every definition I've ever read for a podcast is that it's an audio or video file, usually in a series that can be downloaded.

I've never read any "technical definition" about them needing to be free to qualify as a podcast.

> If we can't enjoy the podcast in the podcatcher of our choice it's not a podcast.

Agree there - I don't think there should be a monopoly on how we listen, but I disagree with the "they must be free" thing.


Atom, schmatom. Smells like RSS so it's RSS. In my mind anyway. Deffo.
@DHeadshot @Rob_T_Firefly